Henry J. Cobb's stab at Ogre v6 errata

The material presented here is my original creation, intended for use with the OGRE system from Steve Jackson Games. This material is not official and is not endorsed by Steve Jackson Games.

There is now an offical errata in progress over at the SJGames boards.

Here's the parts of the new rules that I have some questions about and my proposed answers to them. You may call me a nitpicker, if you please.

Moving questions

Howitzer setup

To close a missing link in the rules, Howitzers (and other move zero units like buildings and some CPs) should be allowed to setup only in those hexes that a Mobile Howitzer could setup in.

Trucks in a damaged town

I think that the reference chart is incorrect about trucks in a damaged town and by 13.01 trucks can enter damaged towns the same as undamaged towns, they just don't get to use the roads.

Also the mention of clear terrain in 5.01 does not of course apply to trucks. And that 5.08.5 fails to mention that trucks can combine road and town movement in the same turn. By say moving from clear to town then taking moving on a road out of town for two more hexes.

Finally 5.11 really should exclude infantry inside trucks from the hex's stacking limit.

Moving by road from non-road

5.07 as written makes any isolated hex of road completely useless and raises some interesting questions about getting stuck on the bridge. What does it matter that three GEVs making a ranged attack on a stream bridge have only a 33% chance of success, when if they simply fired on the road next to the bridge they'd have a 70% chance of achieving the same game effect? (Except for the VPs of course.)

Instead I'd rather have it that units may enter an intact road from a matching cut road hex, but they do not get the road bonus for that movement phase. This way the stream bridge status has a separate impact on movement from that of the road it is connected to.

Also the "any unit" in 13.01.3 should refer to "any ranged non-AP weapon" so that unarmed trucks and CPs can't destroy roads and Ogres would need to use a battery or missile.

Swamping the Ogre

5.08.3 forgot to mention that a heavy tracked vehicle costs 2 MPs to enter a swamp hex and this ends its movement for the turn. (And on a roll of 1 or 2, ends movement for the rest of the game.)

Stuck on the river bridge

5.07.2's implied "leave by the bridge" means to leave the bridge hex and enter one of the adjacent land hexes the bridge is pointed out. This is road movement if that road hex is still intact and movement into the normal terrain of that hex if the road is cut.

Also a unit on (not under) a bridge defends as if it were in clear terrain.

Bridge down

I think what 13.02.2 means to say is that GEVs no longer get the water bonus and instead treat the hex as swamp, as all other units do. (The rubble reference can be completely ignored.)

I do not know what is intended to happen to units on the water or under the water when the bridge collapses in their hex and I think it's best to ignore any impact (pun intended) on them, other than spillover from the attack.

Recovery from terrain disablement

My choice is that 4.02 is wrong and 5.08.2 is right. On a roll of 1 or 2 the unit remains disabled, and on a roll of 3 through 6 it recovers.

Also on terrain disablement, on the Reference Sheet Turn Sequence step 5., GEVs overruning into disabling terrain on their second movement phase roll for terrain disablement before resolving the overrun.

Quick dismounts

Infantry can freely hop off of disabled vehicles, but are stuck inside disabled vehicles in which they ride inside.

Once an attacker forces the defender to reorg the infantry in a hex by 7.12.1, he must declare and resolve an attack on that hex before making other attacks, or declare his fire phase over.

Infantry regrouping by 7.12.1 dismount from their steeds, if and only if their new grouping will not fit on the same vehicle. They are able to either mount or move on foot starting with their next movement phase. Infantry dismounting after surviving a 8.06.1 overrun can also either mount or move on foot during their next movement phase.

Combative phrases

Super-SuperHeavy tanks

My take on 13.07 is that a second D result is completely ignored and does not extend the disablement time. Also 13.07 SuperHeavy's ought to treat Ds received in overruns as Ds, not Xs.

Superheavy ramming

A superheavy tank (of either type) that rams a train by 9.05 is destroyed. Otherwise a superheavy tank that rams via 8.05.3 without using 13.07 and rolls a disablement result on itself is disrupted. This is not raised to a destroyed result for being in an overrun. The D to X promotion only applies to directed fire in an overrun.

Missile rack fire rate

8.05.4 implies that an Ogre's missile rack automatically reloads itself at the end of the Ogre's turn. Hence destroying a missile rack in an overrun after it has fired in that overrun does not destroy another missile because the rack is for that moment empty.

Helpless Ogres

By 8.05.1 and 8.07 the "two further" mean just two total fire rounds for an Ogre that starts an overrun with no effective weapons. The ability to ram is not counted against it.

Overruns can also end if neither side is able to damage the other. For example a GEV-PC overrunning a disabled D3 command post in a town hex. (If it was in a clear hex the GEV-PC could always ram for a 1:2 attack.) And GEVs that ram during a fire phase should do so instead of firing, not in addition to it.

If hostile units start a turn in the same hex then the active player can either expend one movement point to start an overrun (by 11.04.2), use normal movement to leave the hex or remain in place (possibly due to not having any movement points) and ignore the hostiles until ranged fire phase.

Other Overrun questions

By 8.04 and 7.13.2, each squad fires alone for a 2 point attack against Ogre treads and they cannot combine fire for a tread attack.

Just ignore the third bullet under 8.07, a single squad of Marines does not automatically destroy a stack of five SuperHeavy Tanks. (However a single Superheavy tank has only a 11% chance of surviving an overrun by a Marine platoon, and even less chance if they have another movement point to declare another overrun.

To make this a general rule and keep from forcing a Mark IV to expend its last internal missile on a Light Tank, do the following. At any point (including the very start) one side in an overrun may declare that they are no longer firing in that overrun (they may still ram however). The other side then gets two fire rounds to do their worst and the overrun is over. If a side does not make that declaration then they must attempt some sort of attack each fire round, even if it's as useless as firing APs at Ogres. (Hey, it worked in one of the Bolo stories...)

If a truck or hovertruck is destroyed in an overrun fire round but the infantry survive the attack, then the surviving squads are stunned and unable to fire for their next fire round, then they recover and act normally.

The combination of 8.08 and 6.05 suggests to me that an Ogre that rams another Ogre or building during an overrun ends its movement for the turn, but that an Ogre rammed by another Ogre during an overrun can continue moving after the overun.

Error in 5.11.2 example

In the example in 5.11.2, a roll of a 3 on a 1-1 against a superheavy tank disables it.

Sneaking around Ninja town

7.14.2 would seem to cause problems when Ninja style stealth is reintroduced so my suggestion is to replace it with a brand new CRT, just for tread attacks in town...

Attacks vs. Ogre treads in town hexes.
1 - 4NE
5Half attack strength in tread damage, round down
6Half attack strength in tread damage, round up

7.13.2 should reuse the language from 7.06. Each weapon fires alone vs. treads and most units have only one weapon. (Except for Ogres, SHVY, armed trains, etc.)

Spillover vs terrain

13.01.2 is clearly wrong. A base attack of four points, halved for spillover will get an X result on a six, which even when reduced a step for spillover causes damage to terrain.

Also the "attack" to destroy the road in the unit's own hex by 13.01.3 is a "fire phase" attack and not an "overrun" attack.

AP fire restriction

The 7.05.1 AP targeting restriction does not apply to spillover. So the same infantry unit can be reduced twice in one turn by AP if the direct attack on it rolls a D and then spillover from AP attacking a different infantry unit in the same hex rolls an X. (Which is then reduced to a D for being spillover.) Terrain is not a suitable target for AP, so there must be a bystander infantry unit in the hex to do this.

Also if a D0 unit is "promoted" to D1 by terrain or spillover, it is still subject to AP fire. It's just no longer an automatic 5:1+ odds (dividing by zero) destruction.

Ogre destruction

7.13.3 seems to be in conflict with 3.04.2 as to the VPs awarded for unfired internal missiles on an otherwise trashed Ogre. I would only award Ogre destruction points for critical hits and "captured" Ogres.

Overruning marines

Marines should not be allowed to duck out of water overruns by 7.14.4. This raises too many questions about what happens in the following ranged fire phase where everybody's stacked up together. At the very least the GEVs should force the overrun if they stop movement in that hex. (How long can jarheads hold their breath before coming unscrewed anyway?)

Lasers vs Ogres

For "12.05 Attacks against Ogre missiles", ignore line of sight restrictions. The dodge here is that Ogre missiles are fired on semi-balastic trajectories that bring them above the blocking terrain. Lasers cannot fire on Ogre missiles in overruns, as there is not enough time to respond.

Other issues

Beginner's setup

On page R4 there is a "reasonably good" setup, using the MHWZ, which is not one of the unit types listed under 1.05.

The pain from the train

Friendly infantry can always jump out of the way of a train by 9.06, but GEVs need to be more careful.

Cruise Missiles

AP guns really need a 12+ shot vs cruise missiles, but a more serious issue is if that the rules as written turn a river bridge into swamp when a cruise missile explodes on top of it. Or they can also be read as turning the hex into clear water.